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Tag Archives: TJ Warren

TJ Warren Operates With Surgical Precision

20 Sunday Jul 2014

Posted by deanondraft in NCAA

≈ 4 Comments

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TJ Warren

TJ Warren’s pre-draft scouting report was that he is unathletic, can’t hit 3’s, plays questionable defense, never passes, and scores loads of buckets inside the arc for a SF punctuated by his incredible floater. This didn’t strike me as a lock bust because I have a soft spot for weirdos and you never know how they are going to translate. But I simply couldn’t envision how an unathletic wing dominates inside the arc against NBA competition without any other notable strengths, so I paid him little regard. This was a mistake, as the correct approach should have been to figure out how an unathletic wing dominated inside the arc in the NCAA. I finally got to scout him in summer league and I am completely captivated by his game.

The reasons why weird prospects have appeal is because they normally are doing something right that nobody else is, and you never know how their special skill interacts with NBA competition. This is especially true for scoring, as scoring comes in a wide range of styles and requires scouting to understand each player’s method of attack. This is triply true for TJ Warren, who has the most beautiful scoring game of any prospect I have ever watched.

You need to have some sort of special powers to dominate inside the arc the way TJ did, and it’s clear that his special powers are excellent footwork, coordination, and body control to go with feathery touch anywhere within 12 feet, especially when he’s on the run. He by far the most polished scoring prospect in the class. But what makes him exceptionally appealing is that he hardly ever wastes any time or motion at all with the ball. He has a knack for catching the ball in a position to score, as he can get where he’s going and get his shot off in 0 or 1 dribbles most of the time. If he’s taking 2 or more dribbles it’s because that’s the required amount of dribbles to get to the rim. Every time he dribbles it’s with direction and purpose. The one time I saw him dribble more than 2 times in the half-court: he tried to go left, it wasn’t there, he pulled back and waited for a screen, and then went right and crisply got off his floater. Even though plan A wasn’t there, he did no aimless dribbling, just pulled back and executed plan B. But every other time plan A worked for him and he got his shot off.

The precision that he operates with is stunning, and it also applies to his shot creation. He never wastes an opportunity to get off a quality shot. It has been noted that he racked up lots of transition baskets and putbacks, but that’s not a coincidence. He doesn’t crash the offensive glass for rebounds, he crashes for putbacks. He was able to get putbacks by tapping the ball in, catching the ball and putting it back while hanging in the air, and he even had a perfectly timed tip slam where the unathletic label appeared to be dead wrong.

I have been a common critique of transition scoring, but it doesn’t mean it should be totally discounted. If somebody dominates in transition there is a reason for it, and TJ’s offensive excellence shines through in transition. He bolts up the floor as soon as his team procures the defensive rebound, and once he catches the ball he is deadly. He doesn’t need to beat the defense down the floor, he gracefully steps around whatever defender is in the paint and lays it in. His floater helps as he can always find a way to get off a shot, and he’s so good on the run that he doesn’t require a getting all the way to the rim for a look to be good for him. This is a stark contrast to Andrew Wiggins’ style of beating his opponent down the floor for an uncontested dunk in college which did not translate to summer league.

In the half-court, he moves exceptionally well without the ball and scored on a handful of cuts to the rim. He excels at getting to spots on the floor where he can score as soon as he receives the ball. This is a stark contrast to Jabari Parker’s style of catching the ball, dribbling aimlessly, and chucking whatever comes his way. Other times he’ll attack and when he gets as far as he can he throws up a floater. It seems that he can get off a high volume of 40%+ shots without turning it over, and his floater is so good now who knows how high it peaks. Maybe he is able to generate an endless stream of 45-50% shots in his prime to make him an elite weapon in both transition and the half-court. His college mid-range scoring stats are phenomenal– he made 43.4% of non-rim 2’s as a sophomore and 45.3% for his career. That’s better than any other prospect in the draft, and way better than non-Doug McDermott prospects. It’s hard to say how many of these are on 5 foot runners that will be harder to create in the NBA vs. the widely available mid-range shots and 12 foot floaters, but it’s clear that his mid-range potential is pretty awesome. He also only had 1 shot blocked in summer league, and even without great size or length he has a feel for finding daylight in traffic.

He does take a fair amount of mid-range shots, and it’s not always in the smartest spots. For instance he took a pullup jumper one foot inside the arc in transition, and while he made it that’s not the best shot. While his level of efficiency with respect to movement and motion is pristine, he does not appear to have a machine like level of efficient decision making on the court.

Further, the concept of creating for others off the dribble appears to be a foreign concept to him. When he catches the ball on the perimeter and has nowhere to go he will quickly swing it to a teammate. And when he gets the ball in transition and feels a teammate has a better path to attack, he will give it up. His lone assist was on a transition alley oop to Archie Goodwin. He also had a nice pass in transition where he found his teammate two dribbles from the rim, although he did not get credited for the assist. But when he attacks off the dribble he’s doing it for himself, much like Andrew Wiggins. That said I don’t find it to be nearly as much of a turnoff, because I can’t say that this is an inefficient means of attacking. Wiggins can stagnate the offense and drain the shot clock by taking 10 dribbles before he decides he’s going nowhere and then kick it out. He can also turn it over by taking 10 dribbles, because that amount of motion creates a lot of opportunity for things to go wrong. But because Warren is so quick and incisive with his moves, he almost never turns it over, he almost always gets his shot off, and it appears to rarely have a worse outcome than a 40% floater. Warren’s form of black holing does not appear to be particularly harmful.

Defensively, it’s hard to say whether Warren will be above or below average for an NBA wing. He appears to be competent defensively, and he appears to want to be good. Jeff Hornacek noted that in their drills he successfully stopped a point guard, a small forward, and a center, showing off his versatility. He had a good steal rate in college and it shows as he has good anticipation in the passing lanes and quick hands. His size is solid for a SF: he is 6’8.25″ with somewhat short arms at 6’10.25″, but he’s a lean 220. I can’t definitively say he’s strong, but strength did not appear to be an issue for him as he proved adept at finishing through contact and never really got pushed around the same way that 6’8″ 218 pound Doug McDermott did. His athleticism appears to be solid. It stood out that he is quick to recover when beat. On one play he was beat on a backdoor cut and recovered for a block. On another play he went for a steal 1 on 2 in transition, and he even though he failed and the ball was passed forward to the rim, he was somehow able to recover for the block. I don’t really have much of a feel for his quickness, as he was certainly getting to his spots offensively but that may just be due to his precise movement. DX’s video shows him getting beat a number of times on the perimeter for NC State, although in fairness he was carrying an insane 35.5% usage. I feel like he has good defensive potential, but could also turn out to be not good at all on this end.

It is worth pondering the opportunity cost of his style of play. He consistently crashes the offensive boards, which is certainly worthwhile considering how good he is at putbacks. But it detracts from transition defense when he chooses to do that instead of hauling back the other way. And while he doesn’t seem to regularly cheat with his transition leaks, it might happen on occasion and be correlated with his lackluster DRB%. Also he only shot 31.5% from 3 and 65.4% from FT in college: it’s not certain that he can space the floor from beyond the NBA arc. If he’s playing on the perimeter without spacing or creating for others, how much does that adversely affect his teammates? I don’t think he’s wrong to constantly be seeking buckets since he’s so uniquely talented at it. But he may be a player who posts awesome stats but in reality is slightly less awesome due to all of the minor tradeoffs in his approach. It doesn’t make me like him any less, it is merely an idea to consider as he progresses.

The reason why this isn’t a particularly big deal to me is because it doesn’t impede his upside. He achieved such mastery of 2 point scoring at such a young age, it’s worth wondering if he can apply whatever talent helped him in the process to fill out the other areas of his game. For all of the perfect efficiencies of his interior attacking, his 3 point shot has poor mechanics as he doesn’t square up and often dips the ball down to his knees before releasing. If a shot doctor worked with him, why wouldn’t the coordination and precision that enables him to be so lethal also expedite the growth of his 3 point shot? Can he apply it to passing and defense as well? If so I would say his upside is exceptionally high.

He’s difficult to project, because players that take a lot of shots have large swings based on how many they make. It seems somebody who has a knack for creating high % garbage buckets and doesn’t take many shots worse than 40% or turn it over a bunch will likely score efficiently, but who knows how he will actually look in the NBA. Kelly Olynyk had a similarly feathery touch in the paint that dominated summer league, and it took him a couple of months to get up to speed with the NBA game. Perhaps Warren struggles similarly or never gets fully up to speed at all. Also it’s hard to say what to expect of his 3 point shooting, passing, and defense. He is right on the fence where he could become a spacer, or he could not. He appears to have the smarts to become a good passer, but I’m not sure if it’s something that will actually happen or is even necessary given his style. His defense is a bit of a mystery too. If it becomes good he can more than offset the opportunity cost of his o-reb crashes and transition leakouts. But if he becomes bad he could be a Kevin Martin type player who isn’t good due to offsetting his scoring efficiency by being bad at everything else.

Overall I feel that he’s probably going to be good, and he has a realistic possibility of becoming great. Whether his approach is conscious or natural, his ability to maximize easy buckets and minimize wasted motion to create endless 40%+ shots requires a truly elite feel for the game. He is a unique player with a unique talent, and if he becomes great he will provide a hopelessly optimistic comparison for every crappy mid-range gunner prospect that ever enters the draft in the future. He’s clearly the best scoring prospect in the draft, and he is an awesome value at 14th overall that makes me like Ryan McDonough and want to forgive him for taking Alex Len over Nerlens Noel. I think Sam Hinkie made a big mistake by taking Dario Saric over Warren, and the Bulls made a bigger mistake by drafting Doug McDermott to be fix their scoring woes when such a superior scoring prospect (who also might play defense!) was available. I don’t know precisely where I’d re-rank him on a re-draft, but the only player who I’m certain is more talented is Joel Embiid. I think TJ is good and Suns fans should feel good and I feel bad that I didn’t bother to scout him before the draft. All that’s left now is to root for him to rock and spread the nickname of “The Surgeon” since that’s how he handles his business on offense.

Parsing Through The NCAA Prospects: Part 3

25 Wednesday Jun 2014

Posted by deanondraft in NCAA

≈ 5 Comments

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Doug McDermott, Gary Harris, Glenn Robinson, James Young, Mitch McGary, PJ Hairston, Semaj Christon, Shabazz Napier, TJ Warren

Part 1

Part 2

Rim creation stats that help fuel my skepticism toward a handful of prospects in this post

PJ Hairston
Hairston is a bit of an enigma statistically, as Kevin Pelton’s WARP formula rates him as the #7 NCAA prospect where’s Layne Vashro’s EWP model rates him as a 2nd rounder.  The fact of the matter is that he posted impressive box score stats as a sophomore at UNC, but the EWP model has doubts about his ability to translate based on his reliance on jump shooting.  I think both sides of the equation have merit.

Hairston only made 34.9% of college 3’s (possibly due to poor variance as a freshman), so for a player who doesn’t offer much in the way of handling, athleticism, speed, or passing, it’s kind of frightening how jumper dependent he is.  But he shot 80% on FT’s in college (87% in the D-League) and made 35.8% of 3’s in the D-League (41.8% on 1+ days’ rest- Hairston badly struggled with back to backs).  Overall I feel signs point toward his shot being rather good if not elite.  What gives him appeal is the volume of 3 pointers that he got off due to his quick trigger and deep range.  Hairston attempted 11.3 3’s per 40 minutes, which is better than any recent 1st rounders outside of Steph Curry who attempted around 12 3PA per 40 as a sophomore and junior.  Troy Daniels attempted 12.3 3PA/40 at VCU and he literally offers zero value other than shooting.  Seeing that Morey liked Daniels enough to add him to the playoff roster and allow McHale to play him, I feel compelled to give some extra attention to outlier 3PA rates.

Outside of shooting, Hairston doesn’t have any stand out strengths, but he does do enough to add some balance to his game.  He’s a good offensive rebounder, and he had a good assist:TOV ratio (1.18) as a UNC sophomore even though his assist rate cratered in the D-League.  He has good size, length, and strength for a SG as well as passable quicks and athleticism.  He also posted a good 3.0% steal rate, which implies that he has the instincts to be above average as a defensive wing.  In watching him I’m not sure his focus and awareness are quite enough to make him a stopper, and he likely is an underdog to become above average.  But the possibility is there nevertheless to give him appeal as a 3 + D prospect.

In short PJ Hairston is Troy Daniels with superior physical tools, rim finishing, passing, rebounding, and defensive potential.  If Morey was enamored enough with Daniels to let him anywhere near the playoff rotation as a rookie, it’s worth wondering how he feels about Hairston who can get off a ton of 3’s without being complete deadweight otherwise.  Not that Morey is the best drafter in the world, as he did take Marcus Morris over Kawhi Leonard 14th overall as recently as 3 years ago.  But I nevertheless like Hairston anywhere in the 20’s.

Gary Harris
Harris is an incredibly bland prospect, and I’m not sure why he’s still getting hyped as a lottery pick after his measurements.  His 8’0″ standing reach is appalling, although in his defense Vashro has informed me that height and length in tandem are more predictive than reach.  His 6’4.5″ height with a 6’6.75″ wingspan makes him seem a bit more hopeful, but without plus athleticism or quicks it’s hard to see him translating his good college defense into good defense of NBA SG’s.  He has good strength but when all of his other tools are below average, it’s hard to see him thriving.  Further he badly struggled to get to the rim in the half-court, and doesn’t nearly have the floor general skills to run an NBA offense.

So he’s basically a 3 + D combo guard with mediocre tools, and he obviously lacks the skill to run an offense.  I could see him finding a niche as a Mario Chalmers type who plays with bigger wings who have the skill to run the offense, which is a perfectly useful player.  It’s just not a level of upside that justifies a top 20 pick.

James Young
I want to like James Young.  He was the one Kentucky player who could score against lengthy, athletic defenses and he somehow showed up to a playoff game with Rihanna.  But I have a hard time getting too optimistic.  He seems to care about offense quite a bit more than defense, as he posted disappointing steal and block rates given his physical tools (especially his 7’0″ wingspan).  He didn’t do a great job of containing penetration either– he’s still young but his defense needs work.

Offensively his length enables him to hit tough, contested shots, as he scored 20+ points in all 3 matchups vs LSU as well as in the championship game vs. UConn.  These teams offered the closest approximation of NBA length and athleticism on Kentucky’s schedule, and they gave the Harrisons and especially Randle big time issues offensively.  I believe his 35% 3’s and 70% FT’s underrate his upside as a shooter since he’s exceptionally young and his form looks good.  But he’s still not quite an elite shooter and what else is there to like?  His assist:turnover ratio is solid.  But he struggles defensively, is a mediocre rebounder, and doesn’t have the handles or burst to regularly get to the rim.  Even if his shot develops exceptionally well, he still needs other skills to become a good NBA player and it’s not the most likely parlay that he overcomes enough weaknesses to become a good starter.

I still take him in round 1 since he’s so young, but I think he’s a bit overrated as a top 20 pick.

Mitch McGary
The Jusuf Nurkic of the NCAA.  McGary doesn’t have great length or athleticism, but makes a defensive impact his own way with strength, quick feet, and good instincts to rack up steals.  He’s a beast on the glass and a solid finisher as well.  The downside is that he missed most of this past season with back issues, and he’s also old for a sophomore as he is already 22.  For these reasons I rate him considerably lower than Nurkic, but I neverthless like him as a late 1st flier.

TJ Warren
I don’t even know what to think here.  He is an unathletic SF who thrives scoring inside the arc.  Is that ever going to be useful in the NBA?  I don’t know.  He has a ridiculous floater, he moves well off the ball, and he had a good steal rate so maybe he makes it all work in his own funky way.  But a wing who is neither an elite athlete, defensive prospect, passer, or shooter seems to have limited upside so he’s a fringe 1st rounder to me.

Glenn Robinson
GR3 is another player who I tried to get into but perceive as a likely disappointment.  He uses his leaping ability to be a scintillating rim finisher, converting 83% (!) of his rim attempts as a sophomore.  His 3 point shot is a work in progress but it’s not hopeless, and he also has the tools to be a good defensive player which gives him the makings of a compelling flier.  But whenever I watch him I get the sense that he lacks the feel for the game on to become a genuinely good player on either end of the floor.  He also isn’t much of a rebounder considering that he played PF for Michigan.  He’s a fringe 1st rounder.

Shabazz Napier
Everybody loves Shabazz after he carried UConn to an unlikely title run as a 7 seed.  He hit an endless stream of off the dribble 3’s to enable UConn’s ugly offense to work well enough to beat a number of touch matchups, and he deserves all the credit in the world for making Kevin Ollie a sought after NBA coach.

As an NBA prospect, my feelings toward him are mixed.  He grades as a solid statistical prospect, and I quite like him as a 3 + D PG paired with a bigger PG to run the offense and defend the wing.  But he’s also tiny, unathletic, old, and not an elite playmaker at the deepest position in the league.  It seems unlikely that he ever becomes a top 15 PG in the NBA since he’s in a mold lacking upside.  While he can become useful anyway, I have a hard time getting excited about the thought of taking him in round 1 with so many higher upside PG’s in the class.

Semaj Christon
Speaking of PG’s with more upside than Bazz, Semaj Christon is one of them.  He is not loved by statistical models, but he is the one player where I heavily favor scouting over stats.  Two problems with taking his stats at face value:

1) He was forced to share PG duties with Dee Davis depressing his assist rate
2) Xavier played a non-gambly defense.  He posted a solid 2.3% steal rate to lead the team, but it doesn’t do service to his tools and defensive potential.

He’s old for a sophomore as he turns 22 right at the start of his rookie season, so I wouldn’t say he is loaded with upside.  He still has plenty of shortcomings that inhibit him as a prospect such as his shooting, decision making, and overall skill level.  But he also has sneaky upside that is undetected by statistical models, so I like him as a late 1st or early 2nd flier.  I can see him becoming an Eric Bledsoe lite.

Doug McDermott
The subject of my first post on the blog, and my feelings still have not changed. I picked McDermott as my first topic to write about because he is so straightforward– he is a one dimensional scorer with awful tools, and limited handling and passing ability. He is a great shooter and moves well off the ball, but his interior scoring has translation risk and there’s not enough else to like to offer any compelling form of upside.

In McDermott’s defense I will note that he wasn’t quite as bad defensively in college as his steals and blocks suggested. Rodney Hood got blown by a fair bit more frequently, to offer an example of worse defense. McDermott was at least smart enough to know when he was facing off with a mismatch and give enough space to not get blown by. This is far less important than his poor physical tools and non-existent defensive playmaking ability, but it does give him a glimmer of hope for being a stomachable level of bad.

I stand by my conclusion that he’s not a 1st round talent. As far as I can tell the only reason why he’s in the discussion for a lottery pick is because he scored a boatload of points, even though the NCAA scoring leaderboard is littered with guys who amounted to absolutely nothing in the NBA. While he is a better shooter and may not be quite as tragic of a bust as Adam Morrison, he is a roughly similar prospect in that they are both one dimensional scorers with poor tools. It would amuse me to no end to see Jordan refuse to learn from his Morrison mistake and take McDermott 9th overall. Absolute best case for McDermott is something along the lines of a SF version of JJ Redick.

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